Big Al & CJ Podcast

Broncos Fall Short of Super Bowl 60 | Big Al & CJ Podcast

Episode Summary

The Denver Broncos’ Super Bowl 60 run ends one step short, and CJ is joined by Chad Brown and Brandon Krisztal to break down exactly why. The crew dives into Sean Payton’s controversial fourth-and-one decision, the execution that followed, and how situational football ultimately swung the AFC Championship Game. The conversation expands into coaching philosophy, playoff margins, and whether this Broncos season was a true foundation for future contention—or a missed opportunity.

Episode Notes

The Broncos were one play away from changing everything, and the episode opens with a deep breakdown of the fourth-and-one decision that defined the AFC Championship loss. CJ questions both the call and the play design, while Chad Brown evaluates the moment from a defensive and situational football standpoint. Brandon Krisztal adds perspective from around the team, explaining how Sean Payton’s aggressive instincts have shaped games throughout his career.

The discussion widens to a coaching contrast between offensive aggression and situational discipline, using Mike Vrabel and the Patriots’ approach as a counterpoint. The group examines how weather, personnel limitations, and game flow should have influenced Denver’s strategy, especially with a backup quarterback and a defense that was controlling the pace of the game. Chad draws on his Patriots experience to explain how preparation and adaptability often decide playoff outcomes.

The episode closes with a forward-looking conversation about the Broncos’ future. Is this roster built to sustain championship contention, or did Denver benefit from a rare convergence of circumstances across the AFC? The panel weighs coaching turnover risks, injury luck, divisional improvements, and whether defense provides a reliable championship blueprint heading into next season.

Episode Transcription

00;00;02;29 - 00;00;27;26

Damn, damn, damn. So close, but oh, so far away. We'll talk about it. The Denver Broncos blow one. I don't know if they can get it back. And by the way, a surprise Pro Bowl announcement that I'm sure everybody around these parts are going to be pleased with.

00;00;27;28 - 00;00;43;28

All right fellas we're going to get right into it man. But before we do, the elephant in the room is fourth and one, right? I mean, do we have a consensus on that. Fourth and one we going to get into it with as well as other things as well. Because it wasn't just that play that we'll break down.

00;00;43;28 - 00;01;03;05

But of course the Denver Broncos blow what I thought was the best opportunity in a decade to get to the Super Bowl. Will it be another decade before we have this conversation again? We'll talk about that as well. But, I'll tell you what. Before we break it down, let's hear what the head coach, Sean Payton, had to say about.

00;01;03;05 - 00;01;34;01

Speaker 2

How specifically to the fourth down call. I don't know which is the the the greater regret, the decision, certainly the play call. You know, back in the good old days, you still get a measurement. All right. And there was something about a measurement that did two things. I knew he was short. And when you look at the film, he was actually a little shorter than they Mark did.

00;01;34;04 - 00;01;47;20

Speaker 2

But it also buys you time to think of the the call you want. So we, we used the timeout and,

00;01;47;23 - 00;02;14;18

Speaker 2

I think probably would, would irks me more is the call more than the decision? It's it's still early in the game now, you know, and we knew there was going to be flurries as well. We have a new feel for flurries here. You know what can change in the basin of a mountain? But that,

00;02;14;20 - 00;02;18;13

Speaker 2

Yeah, that there those moments were.

00;02;18;16 - 00;02;22;04

Unknown

You know, that you,

00;02;22;06 - 00;02;24;23

Speaker 2

You wish you had back.

00;02;24;25 - 00;02;50;20

Okay, now that Sean Penn's explanation for, the fourth down and for those who who don't know or aren't completely familiar, we're talking about the Denver Broncos up seven zip in the second quarter in that AFC Championship game, driving down deep into, New England, New England territory and decided on fourth and one. In fact, I think it was fourth and perhaps even inside of one to go for it.

00;02;50;22 - 00;03;12;00

Most people I shouldn't say most, but many folks say the right play or the right, decision would have been to take the points and kick the field goal. Of course, Sean Payton, known for being an aggressive offensive play caller, did not do that. And so you can hear him sort of a bit of a stream of consciousness trying to, you know, kind of explain and, you know, in real time.

00;03;12;00 - 00;03;36;03

Exactly, why he did it. And and expressing some regret to some degree, I think, I think I heard a little bit of a regret, express there of, if not just if not the play card and certainly the decision to go for, the first down to begin with. I thought it was a horrific decision because at the time, I remember yelling at the television, this may be the last score opportunity of the game.

00;03;36;04 - 00;03;58;02

There may not be another point scored in this game. And not only that, here's the part guys that I think I struggle with most. It's not fourth and goal from the one. It's fourth and one from outside the 15 yard line. There's no guarantee you score a touchdown even if you get the first down.

00;03;58;05 - 00;03;59;21

Brandon Krisztal

Have been done nothing anyway.

00;03;59;24 - 00;04;11;14

That's exactly right. And you know and you get your backup quarterback in there, and your defense is standing on their head. I've heard that term used before. Am I using that right?

00;04;11;15 - 00;04;21;17

Brandon Krisztal

No, only because it's related to hockey goalies. Yes. My all around and they're like, oh, Patrick Wall is standing on his head. Scott Wedgewood is standing on his head.

00;04;21;17 - 00;04;23;01

Because of great defense.

00;04;23;01 - 00;04;38;12

Brandon Krisztal

But because they're sometimes they're flying around off their skates and are literally on their head. If you're on your head too much and chat, you can speak to this as a former Pro Bowl defensive player, if the defense is on their head too much, it's not going to be a good day for you. But I do. We I think we both get where you're coming from with.

00;04;38;18 - 00;04;42;20

Chad Brown

I think you're you're analogy is okay there KG so go ahead and finish up.

00;04;42;22 - 00;05;12;28

Think that's all I was yelling out there you go. Yeah. But defense balling out I think the the Patriots at that point had 12 yards total offense and a two score game is probably I'm thinking all you need. And I know the weather came in was a factor there as well. Even making the point even greater. But that aside it wasn't going to be a game where, you know, either team was going to get to 20.

00;05;13;03 - 00;05;29;10

He kind of felt that wasn't going to be the case. I don't know, that was my position on that. I thought it was a monumental mistake. Again, because there's no guarantee what happens thereafter. And as it turned out, it was the difference in the game. I want to hear what, Chad. What I want to hear what you have to say about it.

00;05;29;15 - 00;05;41;18

Because you were a defensive guy. I would imagine you saying, hey, man, give me a two score game at that point, the the flow of the balance of the game, I think changes at that point.

00;05;41;20 - 00;06;05;24

Chad Brown

I think you take the points so it the lens to which I view life is obviously from a linebacker lens. So I think about the defense. And so what can I do to give my defense the best chance for success? Take the points, get the field goal. Then considering how well, as you pointed out, C.J., the Broncos defense was playing, the odds of the Patriots being able to score more than a touchdown this game just seemed incredibly slim.

00;06;05;24 - 00;06;34;10

Chad Brown

So there's that. There's this new era of football that we are and we're going for it on fourth down is involved. Whether we're talking about punting situations or by passing the field goal and trying to keep the drive going and hopefully score a touchdown. And we've seen that to the detriment of a lot of teams recently. The Detroit Lions, while that was the aggressive nature that made them, the Detroit Lions, a bit of a feared team for a while, that's also a reason why they're not in the playoffs.

00;06;34;10 - 00;06;53;24

Chad Brown

That's also the reason why they have failed in the playoffs the last couple of years with this need to go for it. On fourth down. Sean Payton was being shadowed by Seth Wickersham last week and they were watching the wild card games. That's so I saw the divisional game and Sean turned to Seth and said, they're going to go for the points there.

00;06;53;26 - 00;07;18;25

Chad Brown

So this is a guy who does no better. And, I won't put it in the terms of, you know, local writer Mark his like ego and arrogance. I'll put on an aggressive nature. I'll put it in that Dan Campbell category. This is who I am as a play call. This is what we do. But I call bullshit on that because what you do and who you are, it needs to be subjected to city situational football.

00;07;18;27 - 00;07;37;05

Chad Brown

Is it a weather game? Is the second half going to be difficult for us to move the football? How well as our defense play an outside decision to Sean's point, which you alluded to in that clip, the play call, I think it was a ridiculous play call. And then on top of all that, the execution of that play call was incredibly poor.

00;07;37;08 - 00;07;46;09

Chad Brown

It was a failure on all three points. I don't like the decision. I really don't like the play call and the execution was terrible.

00;07;46;11 - 00;07;56;07

BC you're you're again around that team, probably more than anyone that doesn't wear a uniform. And my guess is when you go home at night, you put your uniform on. But that aside.

00;07;56;11 - 00;07;59;03

Brandon Krisztal

I have no Broncos clothes that are mine other than a t shirt.

00;07;59;06 - 00;07;59;13

That.

00;07;59;17 - 00;08;06;23

Brandon Krisztal

I'm running as Broncos country. That was given to me in London three years ago. I was just taking my kids. Do you know what? We have a jersey that my oldest and I share.

00;08;06;23 - 00;08;07;24

That's that's that's.

00;08;07;24 - 00;08;09;18

Brandon Krisztal

He keeps it legendary that that's.

00;08;09;18 - 00;08;39;02

Different. Mike or, Sean Payton. You're right. We have we've heard local writer Mark Kissel, arrogance. As he describes it, Chad is a far more kind guy, which which is why I know, he doesn't view life through the lens of a linebacker. More like a quarterback. But that aside, but that aside, who is son?

00;08;39;04 - 00;08;48;02

How do you how would you break it down, given how how often you hear him talk and you've seen and analyzed every play that's been made by the Broncos this year.

00;08;48;04 - 00;09;01;10

Brandon Krisztal

So you'll hear this said about Sean that do you know how smart Sean Payton is? You can just ask him, okay. And I'm not the one saying that I've had a good relationship with Sean well, before he came here randomly, I met him years ago at the Final Four.

00;09;01;17 - 00;09;03;06

Do you agree with that, cinnamon?

00;09;03;08 - 00;09;03;25

Brandon Krisztal

I understand.

00;09;03;25 - 00;09;05;15

Well, he tell you how smart he is?

00;09;05;16 - 00;09;22;04

Brandon Krisztal

No, but I do think he likes to remind people of the success that he's had. And you can't argue with how good those offenses were in New Orleans, how many games they won, how quickly they won. When he finally became a head coach, he's told us we've gotten the same stories a lot. We've heard a lot about the 2017 draft, which he was focused on Mahomes.

00;09;22;06 - 00;09;36;24

Brandon Krisztal

They got Kamara and Henderson and or I mean Hendrickson and all these other guys. He also talks about that first draft and and building that team. But so he from the time he took over a head coaching job the other story was the Raiders. And he there's a we get to the Raiders stuff with Davis Webb a little later.

00;09;37;01 - 00;09;54;28

Brandon Krisztal

But he said how he ultimately skip that job. When he finally took a job he had success right out of the gate. They went to the NFC title game his first year coming back to New Orleans off Katrina. So from the time that he got there and then a couple lean years, but they were really good. And it helped having a Hall of Fame quarterback that he got who'd already been to a Pro Bowl in San Diego.

00;09;55;06 - 00;10;11;25

Brandon Krisztal

And within year, whatever drew was in 6 or 7, something like that. I'm not doing that to appease kids. But I think it was year six, year seven. Point being, they were really good every year. And he wins a lot of football games and they're really good in their personnel evaluation. You know, I've talked to people in the building.

00;10;11;25 - 00;10;28;10

Brandon Krisztal

I know, you know, people that are in the building that'll tell you how good, of an eye for talent he has something I think he picked up from Bill Parcells. But he's also, at his core, a quarterback and a play caller that wants to score points. And so I think that that can be to his detriment at times.

00;10;28;10 - 00;10;42;21

Brandon Krisztal

It wasn't against the Chiefs or the Chargers, but in this instance, I feel like there was an element of greed of I've got enough good plays. We're still on the show, everybody. How good of a coach. I'm not that he's thinking that actively, but like, oh we go up 14 nothing here and I know this game is over.

00;10;42;24 - 00;11;04;15

Brandon Krisztal

And so I think that his I think kid's calling it his ego feels fair in this instance because as Chad just mentioned, Seth Wickersham was there with them all week, wrote in the piece, it ended up being, I'm sure would mean a much longer piece had they won, that they're watching that bears game and the bears go for it on fourth down and he's saying, kick it, bears don't.

00;11;04;22 - 00;11;18;10

Brandon Krisztal

It is ultimately not costing him. But he's saying kick it himself a week earlier. And then in the moment he doesn't have anybody in his ear over. Hey remember coach you said if it's there in the situation kick it. I'm not saying he doesn't. If he did, he wasn't listening.

00;11;18;10 - 00;11;57;27

To them I think I think Sean Payton and I've always felt this about him. He's a he's a very emotional play caller. Right. He almost a complete contrast to the head coach who he coached against this weekend. I think Sean Payton has supreme confidence in his offense to make a play. I don't know that Sean Payton, during a game focuses out enough to say, what's more important than our potential ability to make this play is how do we best position ourselves to win this game?

00;11;57;29 - 00;12;20;13

Like, you're right, there's nothing wrong with saying if we go up 14. In fact, it's absolutely true. If we go up 14 zero, we have an even better chance of winning this game. But the way the game was unfolding was it was unfolding. It didn't call for that. And that's kind of my point, Chad. It was it's not that you have a play that may work.

00;12;20;13 - 00;12;41;15

And I, to be honest with you, if you really go back and look at the play, I think New England understanding situational football probably anticipated that they were going to try and run a pick and get the back out really quick. You see this play in the NFL all the time. And but the second the second option there is the guy who's setting the pick.

00;12;41;15 - 00;13;06;26

And I think it was a little Jordan Humphrey. Who had Stidham had any time or could have picked it up quicker. The picker actually came open because you know it was like in basketball the guy who sets the pick if they're in zone or if they switch, you just roll and you got the defender on your back. All you needed was one yard, but the play was blown up because of quick penetration and probably still him not getting to that quick enough.

00;13;06;29 - 00;13;30;18

That said, I think the difference in that game was the approach that both teams took. I felt like Vrabel was just trying to figure out a way to win the game, given the circumstances. And, there were a number of plays in that game that I thought, Sean is just Sean as being Sean. Right? Which is, again, that's not a pejorative.

00;13;30;18 - 00;13;44;17

I'm not taking a shot at him, but I don't think he adjusted himself enough to say the objective here is to win what is clearly going to be a nip and tuck fingernail bite game.

00;13;44;20 - 00;13;49;05

Chad Brown

As you guys know. You know, I played for the Patriots and I was in the same linebacker room.

00;13;49;06 - 00;14;01;01

No know you were rooting for. I know exactly who you were rooting for. So I'm not going to say it. I got a call from Daniel Graham. Everybody I know who ever played for the Patriots. First of all, they're smug as hell, right? So do you.

00;14;01;02 - 00;14;02;07

Brandon Krisztal

Want some rings? I'm not sure.

00;14;02;07 - 00;14;13;04

Chad was outwardly no no no no Chad trust me man, any is some about that damn locker room in New England that once you go in it, you're messed up for life. But go ahead, Chad, I'm sorry, but.

00;14;13;07 - 00;14;38;23

Chad Brown

I shared my linebacker room with Mike Vrabel. And of all the players in my 15 years in the NFL, I never met a guy who was as suited to be NFL head coach as Mike Vrabel was. And even in the Patriots facility, you can talk about Tom Brady and his football IQ and his football smarts. There was one guy in that locker room who could go blow for blow with Coach Belichick on winning football, and that was Mike Vrabel.

00;14;38;23 - 00;14;57;12

Chad Brown

And this is when he was still an active player. So for Mike Vrabel to view the game through the lens which you just talked about C.J. eat situation not what's aggressive, not what's going to satisfy my ego as a play caller. Not saying Sean Payton was doing that consciously, but we've seen a lot of play calling where that seems to be the case.

00;14;57;14 - 00;15;21;00

Chad Brown

It's always going to be about what's going to be the best chance for success for our football team. And that's going to change with the situation, the weather, all those kinds of things. So Mike Vrabel, to understand that, just look at the difference in the run game. Mike Vrabel chose to and Josh McDaniels chose coming out of halftime to shorten the game as best they could.

00;15;21;03 - 00;15;39;17

Chad Brown

They figured that was going to be there to do their advantage. And so so reminder Ray Stevens was a big part of that drive. Nine minutes and 31 second drive to start the second half Raymond J. Stevens had 25 carries in that game. He was only averaging like 2.8 yards per carry, but the yards weren't as important as the time.

00;15;39;25 - 00;16;01;00

Chad Brown

Again, what gives my team best chance for success? I don't need a 100 yard rusher right now. I just need to chew up time and get this game over as quickly as possible. So the difference in approach to the game, while Mike Vrabel certainly deserves credit, I think this is a Bill Belichick tip of the cap to him as well, because that's where he learned all that stuff.

00;16;01;02 - 00;16;23;20

Chad Brown

And that's where Daniel Graham and I learned all that stuff. And from a Patriots perspective, just talking about the weather conditions in the game. And I know some Patriots had some difficult footing out there, just like the Broncos did. But the first weather practice availability in New England, if it's the first rainy day, you go out and you practice outside, how are we going to practice in the rain?

00;16;23;26 - 00;16;40;08

Chad Brown

If it's the first snowy day in New England, we go outside. We don't go in the bubble. We go outside. We have the equipment manager bring every cleat out possible so you can change your cleats. As many times as you need to change it in the course of practice, so you can be confident in your footing during this snow game.

00;16;40;10 - 00;16;58;03

Chad Brown

What does it feel like to catch a football? Does it feel like to throw a football? All those things so while you know, the Patriots offense didn't line it up because they had suddenly this footwork advantage over the Broncos in the snow, I'm just talking about the level of detail as far as situational football goes for that New England mindset.

00;16;58;09 - 00;17;12;28

Chad Brown

And I think in the end, to your point and to my point, the difference in outlook and understanding the situation in the game tilted itself towards Mike Vrabel and the Patriots. And that's why they're going to the Super Bowl in two weeks in Santa Clara.

00;17;13;00 - 00;17;31;23

Brandon Krisztal

You know it's funny you mentioned the weather. We can dive into it a little bit more. But not mentioning the weather. We know that practicing in the weather we heard from Will. Let's. He's never kicked in the snow before. Certainly not in a game. And I don't know very often when they practice. And like Sean said, they practice outside Friday.

00;17;31;23 - 00;17;46;27

Brandon Krisztal

But when snowing. Right. So I don't know if when it snowed, he's grabbed his long snapper or at least even his holder or the little tee that they practice with and gone out and kicked in the snow. And that clearly might have been to his detriment just a little. Obviously they got their hands on one that still almost went in on that 45 yarder.

00;17;46;29 - 00;18;03;27

Brandon Krisztal

But that was just an interesting note that I think when it snows between now and the end of next season. And how much will that still be here in the spring or even in the spring? He's probably kicking the snow a little bit just in case this happens again. But going back to the Vrabel point and you said Vrabel and Josh McDaniels.

00;18;04;00 - 00;18;21;15

Brandon Krisztal

Look Josh and Sean I think are cut from the same cloth fellas I think that Mike Vrabel came out at halftime said we are running it and we're running it and running. And because Josh, when he had Bill Belichick in his ear and when he's had Mike Vrabel in his ear, is whatever it takes to win. When Josh has been left to his own devices, he's going to show you how good of a coach he is.

00;18;21;15 - 00;18;39;22

Brandon Krisztal

And he is a really good play caller and a really good play designer, just like Sean Payton is. But that was a mandate from Mike Vrabel. You can just tell run, run, run. And you talk about the run being a factor. The something that TJ and I chatted about. And one of the first person, first people to bring it up, Bo Nix couldn't have thrown that touchdown pass to Courtland Sutton any better.

00;18;39;27 - 00;18;58;12

Brandon Krisztal

He probably could have thrown that deep ball to Marvin Mims to set it up. Any better than Jarrett Stidham did. But Bo Nix could have done a lot more of what we saw from Drake. Maye in general do you mean the bootleg? But that as well at the very end, just using his legs in a bad weather game where there's some yards to be had in your whether it is designed runs.

00;18;58;12 - 00;19;07;04

Brandon Krisztal

I know he got hurt on his run or in his scrambles when he is rolling out. Go pick up for six eight yards. Use your athleticism. Yeah that's where not having Bo Nix I think hurt as much as anything.

00;19;07;04 - 00;19;39;27

Well I think that's where I think that's where Sean Payton I think handicaps a quarterback as well. In this case, I've always sense the little tension between Bo and Sean, which isn't all that unusual. Right? Quarterback coach? Particularly a quarterback like Bo, who's been, he's been school all his life to to play the position. He got a little there's a little arrogance there as well.

00;19;39;27 - 00;20;05;05

Right. I kind of know what I'm doing, coach. But I do get the sense that if Sean has a flaw, it's that he can over coach. Sometimes the plays that you describe that stand on made are the plays that happen fairly pretty much on schedule, right. The the boot to Courtland. That's that's you got a single single read there and a guy comes wide open.

00;20;05;08 - 00;20;31;10

Same with the long pass there. Earlier in the game, it's I got the sense that Stoneham wanted to make the right play. He wanted to make the right read. And it's probably drilled in his head in a game like that. And conversely, with a guy like Drake May, who's a finalist, probably for the most valuable player in the league, I mean, the guy played damn good.

00;20;31;10 - 00;20;33;16

Brandon Krisztal

Football, I think is we know the NFL honors.

00;20;33;16 - 00;20;55;12

He's he's a finalist. But this wasn't that kind of game. It was a if you see it if your first reads not there go. You don't you're not going to have time. Nor is the are the conditions good enough for us to mess around. Just go get positive yards. This is a positive yards game. Three yards is not a bad play on second.

00;20;55;12 - 00;21;20;17

And you know on second and first and ten or second and eight go get we need positive yards. And you just got that sense that, Steinem wasn't as clear about what he wanted to do. And of course, he's a backup quarterback, which I think is even more incumbent on the head coach to have. Listen, if it's not there, just go keep us on schedule, try and keep us at least even with the chains, if not ahead.

00;21;20;24 - 00;21;33;23

And we can figure this thing out. If we have to punt it, that's okay too. Because our defense is, they're going to stand on their head and get a stop for us.

00;21;33;26 - 00;21;55;12

Chad Brown

Sean Payton called 13 run plays in the first quarter. And I think two minutes into the second quarter. So in that short period of time, 13 run plays, 11 the entire rest of the game. So this thing with the run game that continues to crop up all year long, in fact, he was just asked about it last week during the conference call.

00;21;55;15 - 00;22;28;24

Chad Brown

So this thing continues to crop up where he gets away from the run game. And in this game, a weather game, a game with your backup quarterback, a game where you want to take the air out of the ball as soon as you get a lead. He managed to get away from it again. So, again, I don't want to go with arrogance and ego and go markedly but this aggressive nature to make all these plays, that's great as a general outlook, but your outlook always has to be tempered by the guidelines of situational football and conventional football wisdom.

00;22;28;27 - 00;22;50;25

Chad Brown

And so too often he got away from that, to I'm not sure Chase to pursue what goal. But in the end, the goal should always be winning the football game. So I was always struck by, my time with the Patriots, because if you got to throw the ball 50 times over the course of a game to win it, that's what they would do if you got to run the ball 50 times to win it.

00;22;51;00 - 00;23;11;17

Chad Brown

That's what they will do. If you got to play a defense that's only got one defensive lineman on the field and five linebackers, that's what they'll do. They're not slavish to a system or to a ratio or to any particular numbers. They're slavish to kicking your ass. And so rather than being a coach who's got a pure system that I operate out of, your system should be how do I win the game?

00;23;11;17 - 00;23;15;26

Chad Brown

How do I kick some ass? And then I'll mold my system around that.

00;23;15;28 - 00;23;32;00

I will say this not no. Okay, you got to point. You gotta want to make as well. But to Chad's point it was extremely Belichick Ian. Right I mean they came out in the second half and said we're just going to run the ball. I've seen I've watched Patriots games where they'll come out and do exactly what Chad said.

00;23;32;00 - 00;23;52;16

One week they'll throw the ball 50 times and then everyone will say, that's what the Patriots are. They're going to Tom is going to throw the ball 50 times. They figure something out the next week they'll come out and throw the ball 17 times and run it 45 times. And it's like they just whatever. They scout up and see where an advantage may be.

00;23;52;16 - 00;24;31;05

They just commit to it. And there is something, in my opinion, to be said about because the trend in the league is the the young, hot offensive genius. Right. And I do think there's limitations to that. And I think in a way, what we saw this past Sunday is, is symbolic of it. Right? You had a guy in Vrabel who is just a leader of a team and has a feel for what it's going to take to win this game, not committed to a system, not committed to a particular player who he wants to get the ball to, or even a, you know, a singular matchup.

00;24;31;05 - 00;24;57;05

Just taking a step back, you know, not emotional about decisions and viewing objectively. What will it take to win this game. And we've seen, I think the contrast in the two and s perhaps is a cautionary tale to owners in this league about about how we view who's capable of being a leader of man, a leader of football teams and give you the best chance to win games.

00;24;57;12 - 00;25;13;02

Yes, you know, you can be cute offensively. You can put up some scores. But I do think there's an emotional attachment, particularly with offensive coordinators. They fall in love with their own. They smell them their own selves way too much. And it always gets them in a pickle.

00;25;13;04 - 00;25;31;03

Brandon Krisztal

We should do the research on this. And maybe somebody has is I want to talk about the run game, but when you talk about the two coaches that are now left in this in in the Super Bowl, Mike Vrabel clearly came from the defensive side of the ball. Defensive guy doesn't have a system. Happens to have Josh McDaniels who may never be a head coach again.

00;25;31;03 - 00;25;53;27

Brandon Krisztal

Although we'll see. You never want to say never in this league. And then Mike McDonald clearly a defensive guy, he could very easily lose Clint Kubiak to the the Raiders or to another team perhaps. And we know the Kubiak family. They're all offensive guys. And you can list guys like Sean Payton, like Andy Reid, like Mike McCarthy, who just got hired again, and then like the younger guys, like Sean McVay and obviously Kyle Shanahan.

00;25;53;27 - 00;26;12;05

Brandon Krisztal

And then the guys they worked with like Zach Taylor and and Matt LaFleur. But I'm kind of getting to the end of line Kevin O'Connell as well. Point being it, I'd love to know if we go through the 59 Super Bowl champions. And no matter what a defensive coach is going to get it this year, how many of those head coaches were offensive guys versus defensive guys?

00;26;12;05 - 00;26;35;17

Brandon Krisztal

Because Belichick has six right. And Chuck Noll has four right. That's ten defensive Super Bowls right there. Bill Walsh has three of his own. But George Siefert right has the other two. That's right. And we get Bill Parcells a defensive guy right. We could go down the list. The point being it's kind of a double edged sword because if like Dan Campbell felt the effects of losing in this case both coordinators with AG going to to the Jets.

00;26;35;17 - 00;26;53;28

Brandon Krisztal

But clearly Ben Johnson was a big part of what their offensive success was the last couple of years in Detroit. Nonetheless, they were still a tough team that was in the mix. And so if you've got that leader of men, coach, defensive guy, whatever, or special teams in John Harbaugh's case, are you your team's identity isn't going to change.

00;26;54;05 - 00;27;15;20

Brandon Krisztal

Whereas the Miami Dolphins just got rid of Mike McDaniel, who clearly a big part of their identity, for better or worse. And now they bring in Jeff Havili, the defensive coordinator from the Packers. So their identity has to change, right. And so I think that that's maybe overblown like, oh, you're going to let's let's pretend Davis Webb were to go with Vance Joseph to Arizona or the Raiders not be a head coach.

00;27;15;27 - 00;27;27;01

Brandon Krisztal

And Davis would be so good that next year, the year after he becomes the head coach. Well, the team's identity in one of those places will still look like Vance Joseph or like Mike Tomlin's teams did for 18 years, right? 19 years.

00;27;27;01 - 00;27;29;00

And regardless of who the Courtney.

00;27;29;07 - 00;27;34;28

Brandon Krisztal

Carroll had different coordinators on both sides of the ball forever, and we knew what that team was in Seattle.

00;27;35;00 - 00;27;42;18

No, I think that would be an interesting study. I think it would be interesting to see, you know, exactly what the numbers are. DC get on.

00;27;42;18 - 00;27;43;25

Brandon Krisztal

It real quick. Right? Right.

00;27;44;01 - 00;28;09;16

You've already rattled off a few of them, I mean, and it does appear that that, you know, probably more defensive head coach success. Belichick obviously blows the curve on that. But I think the point is, is how do you see the game universally? I think offensive minds see the game from an attack. How many points can we score will outscore them.

00;28;09;18 - 00;28;31;26

As opposed to a different mindset? This is listen, if it's okay to punt it here, I don't know that it's ever okay in San Payton's mind to just punt the ball. His instinct, Ben Johnson, their instinct is to always want to keep possession of the ball and score a touchdown, which is fine as an offensive coordinator.

00;28;31;29 - 00;28;35;07

But as a head coach, there are times when you, you know, but.

00;28;35;09 - 00;28;51;23

Brandon Krisztal

But where Ben Johnson come from working with Dan Campbell in Detroit, that's where Dan Campbell come from, working with Sean Payton. I mean Dan taking it I think to the extreme. Dan is your gold standard of we're going for. And as players you love it. And if it works out more times not great but in critical situations. And that's the thing about playoffs.

00;28;51;29 - 00;29;09;14

Brandon Krisztal

People like, you know, Sean said the biggest determinant of wins or losses is who wins the turnover battle. Because you can get away with five turnovers and still win a game in the regular season. Gets bad teams in the playoffs. Even if you've got the reigning MVP, five turnovers, you're almost certainly going to lose. And playoffs are good teams.

00;29;09;16 - 00;29;20;09

Brandon Krisztal

So when you're playing good teams, you can't have those margin for error. So getting away with bad fourth down calls in the regular season is okay. In the playoffs, it costs you a chance to advance a lot of times.

00;29;20;12 - 00;29;44;05

Chad Brown

Again, I'm all down for play callers being aggressive. But again situational understanding. So I think what you're saying, C.J., about yes, your system as a coordinator, you can be aggressive, but playoffs bring a whole different level of situational football to it. You have to assume that the team on the other sideline, they, because they're in the playoffs, have good situational understanding.

00;29;44;08 - 00;29;44;17

Right.

00;29;44;17 - 00;30;06;19

Chad Brown

And so their ability to know what's coming next. The fact that the Broncos went to a similar play, which ended up being the fourth down stop as they scored the touchdown with earlier, well, don't you think that the Patriots went to the sideline and talked about that and talked about assignments and talked about how we're going to deal with that style of play and who's responsible for what.

00;30;06;21 - 00;30;31;03

Chad Brown

So the, the coaching arrogance, for Sean Payton to go back to that same well, on a play that clearly the Patriots had just talked about defensively. Right. That's where the ego and arrogance comes in for markedly. And again I see the aggressiveness. That's a red zone play call that every team in the league does. And it definitely presents some conflict to the defense with how we're going to do with this.

00;30;31;06 - 00;30;44;03

Chad Brown

But when you've already run it, the defense has a chance to talk about it. The cat's out the bag now. We are going to be prepared for this play. So your aggressiveness needs to be tempered by, again the situational understanding.

00;30;44;06 - 00;31;08;06

Yeah. And sometimes you just need sometimes the adult the final decision maker has to be the person that is not the guy. Not the guy that says we're going to do this. Oftentimes it's the guy who says, we're not going to do that, right. We're just not going to do that. Josh McDaniels I'm sure Josh's game plan wasn't to your point, Tad earlier.

00;31;08;12 - 00;31;27;04

We're going to come out in the second half and we're not going to throw the ball. We're just going to run it. And the adult, the final decision maker is the one who's who likely said, here is the kind of game this is going to be. Put that damn play seat aside right now and this is what we're going to do.

00;31;27;04 - 00;31;44;13

And then we will adjust from there. But I got a feeling this is what we're going to do. And of course, second in charge does what the boss says. That's the value of a variable to me in a situation like some Peyton. And you see this in the league, there's no check to that. There's no check or balance to that.

00;31;44;13 - 00;32;01;27

Right? When an offensive guy has an instinct to do something, that's it. It's they almost have to scratch and there's no one who can go up to Sean Payton and say, hey, man, it's probably not a good idea. Coach. All we need is all we need is the three. No one's likely to. You would say that.

00;32;01;28 - 00;32;10;08

Brandon Krisztal

You would have. I mean, maybe that's honestly, you're going to pick the people on the staff, even though Joe Lombardi's been with them forever and, and, the rest of those guys.

00;32;10;10 - 00;32;12;28

Already been with him forever because he ain't going up to him, is.

00;32;13;00 - 00;32;27;03

Brandon Krisztal

The guy that I think had the best chance to do it. Isn't Vance Joseph all over Jake and say, come on, Sean, I got you covered. Look at how well we're playing. Vance could have could have done that, but he's not going to that's he understands. Have been together three years. It's gone well. But he hasn't been with them for forever.

00;32;27;05 - 00;32;45;05

Brandon Krisztal

It was probably Joe Vitt who is an old school defensive guy that's been around him forever. You know, with his, got the New York edge to him that could have said, hey, New York, new Jersey. Like, look, Sean, let's just go. What would Bill Parcells do right here? Get the three points. And because, like Sean said, it happens so fast.

00;32;45;05 - 00;32;59;15

Brandon Krisztal

Once you have the time out, then it becomes even more, all right, let's just I know we just blew a time out, and I know you got what you think is a good play call. Let's get the three points about the run game. Two things. Here's one relates to that fourth and one. You just picked up yards on the ground for a first down with Adam Prentice.

00;32;59;21 - 00;33;20;11

Brandon Krisztal

He's going to carry the ball for a lot of yards ever. Point being you showed you could pick up the the one yard you needed because you got 3 or 4. Run something with Prentice with even RJ Harvey who at least shows you can break first contact a lot. Or the keeper was still him. And I understand you're going to be comfortable with a guy that hasn't taken it, but I want to see if you're trying to deflate the other team and go up 14.

00;33;20;11 - 00;33;35;16

Brandon Krisztal

Nothing. Give me a short yardage something. Close the duo block that was there. They said, and then they checked out of it after the timeout or change the play. I want to see that. And then Sean Payton today, you know we played that clip from earlier. He was asked about addressing the run game, said he was in Zach Street's office yesterday.

00;33;35;16 - 00;33;51;12

Brandon Krisztal

The O-line coach. And they like their backs. They want Dobbins back. But that it has to be a point of emphasis. That being said, Sean's only had three 1000 yard rushers ever and it's like Deuce McAllister early in his career for like, you know, I said, you.

00;33;51;19 - 00;33;53;02

Know, that's a blast from the past.

00;33;53;02 - 00;34;03;05

Brandon Krisztal

And market moves at four with Kamara was the fourth one. He Dobbins was cruising at Robbins almost 800 yards through ten games. Dobbins would have been a 1000 yard rusher but he wouldn't have been a 1500 yard. I don't think.

00;34;03;08 - 00;34;22;27

So. Here's a question and anything else on that particular game. The Broncos 15 wins, 14 losses. I think overall this year, an outstanding year, 14 losses. I mean four losses. Excuse me, 15 wins, four losses. An incredible season. I think no one expected this out.

00;34;22;28 - 00;34;23;29

Brandon Krisztal

Except one.

00;34;24;01 - 00;35;13;12

Exception. Probably more to the point, here is the question. Is this the type of season on which you ride, and is this the type of team that you can predict in 2026, 20 to 2026 season and say the Denver Broncos, a favorite because of what we saw in 2025 to win the AFC West, perhaps the AFC overall, or was this a moment in time that was set up, that was just set up perfectly for this team to take advantage of and do something special this year, but not doesn't necessarily have the coattails that we've seen with some teams in the past.

00;35;13;16 - 00;35;25;06

Chad, your thought on that, does this carry over and give the Broncos that sort of, have they earned the right to be viewed as a favorite next year because of what took place this year?

00;35;25;09 - 00;35;49;28

Chad Brown

This year they defied conventional football wisdom with a lot of things that they were able to overcome or things that they didn't affect them as far as a win and lost count, the number of close games that they had, 13 come back wins. I mean, we all, if we can rattle them off 33 points needed against the Giants in the fourth quarter, all that kind of stuff, the ball's not going to bounce your way off cleanly next year.

00;35;50;00 - 00;36;04;06

Chad Brown

The fact that you were incredibly, luckily lucky injury wise, outside of, you know, Ben Powers and, J.K. Dobbins. I mean, who else has missed significant time? So there's a lot with. What's that?

00;36;04;08 - 00;36;06;10

Brandon Krisztal

Dre Greenlaw was about it, though, you know.

00;36;06;10 - 00;36;09;25

Chad Brown

Yeah. Okay. There we go. Oh, the beautiful deep inside the ball dragging load.

00;36;09;27 - 00;36;13;29

Brandon Krisztal

But on the offensive side you're right. It was just a two as Ben Powers and Jake Robinson said yeah.

00;36;14;02 - 00;36;35;26

Chad Brown

Passer ten missed some time. But the defense really didn't miss a beat. So are you going to be as lucky injury wise next year? The coaching staff clearly this coaching staff because of a successful team is going to be poached. So whether it's Jim Leonard who looks like he's going to get an opportunity, I'm not sure if he's actually going to get an opportunity, but, Davis Webb's going to get one as well.

00;36;35;26 - 00;37;07;14

Chad Brown

So there's going to be guys on the coaching staff who had instrumental roles this year that are going to be different. And then there's always The Hangover, either from the Super Bowl loser standpoint, which the Broncos are or the or the championship game loser, because you as a football team, as a football player, just want to do everything you can to get back to that same moment next year and you walk into the season sleepwalking a bit, happens to almost every single football team unless you've got, you know, really high football character and a coach who is able to eliminate that kind of thinking from your mind.

00;37;07;14 - 00;37;29;05

Chad Brown

C.J., we went this this, in 1990, after the undefeated season in 98. I'm sorry, 89. We thought we would just be able to get right back to the Orange Bowl. And we start that season one, one and one. And we needed a literally a come to Jesus moment with Coach Mac at the college in before we left for that Texas game to get our minds right.

00;37;29;08 - 00;37;55;16

Chad Brown

My Pittsburgh Steelers, after we lost the AFC Championship game to the San Diego Chargers and Junior Sal the next season, we were three and four, and we needed a come to Jesus moment where we had to get our shit together. So if this Broncos team gets off to a slow start as our buffs as my Steelers did, and the division where now Eric Bieniemy is back in Kansas City calling plays, producing some of their best offensive success when he's been the play caller there.

00;37;55;19 - 00;38;16;29

Chad Brown

With Mike McDaniels now in LA with the Chargers, that run game is going to have a whole different level of effectiveness. Plus what the Harbaugh toughness there under who knows what the Raiders do. So this division in some ways is going to be better. The Broncos will be chipped away at from least from a coaching standpoint. Although the rosters should stay the same and they've got to fight through this.

00;38;17;06 - 00;38;37;15

Chad Brown

Can we just hurry up and get back to the championship game mindset that almost every team has to fight through? So you can't just say, we're going to run the same thing back, because it's going to be a whole different team with a different set of circumstances around them. But having said all that, the roster is still a Super Bowl capable roster.

00;38;37;18 - 00;38;56;12

Brandon Krisztal

Yeah. And this year they returned 84% of that roster. And then the Green Line injury notwithstanding, I think he was solid when he played, but he just obviously missed so much time in. And because they're not played so well too. And Alex Singleton was on the field most of the year. You you didn't you didn't get as much from green as you might have had.

00;38;56;12 - 00;39;14;14

Brandon Krisztal

You've just been healthy from from the jump. And then it was interesting yesterday, him saying that Sean's a little more old school than Kyle Shanahan. And and Sean even acknowledged today that maybe he needs to take care of guys like Greenlaw and Courtland Sutton on Wednesdays, a little bit more and give him just those veteran rest days that he's not necessarily always accustomed to, but a longer second team all pro.

00;39;14;21 - 00;39;33;17

Brandon Krisztal

That's a big signing. And Dobbins, you added but beyond that, other than your rookies who you drafted, you brought all those guys back and almost all of them are under contract. Yeah. Decide on Singleton. They have money to spend do because the dead money from Russell Wilson. Now last year and this year plus the cap goes up. Which is why Singleton joked he wants to be the highest paid defensive player.

00;39;33;17 - 00;39;52;20

Brandon Krisztal

And once all of the Russell Wilson money, $35 million or whatever. But otherwise the guys I mentioned, Greenlaw, Brandon Jones is coming back off injury. You're set with your with your secondary. You have to decide if Jaquan McMillan gets offered anywhere else. Do you match it as a restricted free agent up front? You're going to have everybody back.

00;39;52;24 - 00;40;17;18

Brandon Krisztal

Savion Jones is clearly going to be in the mix taking the the JV snaps along with any who was a 96 is really good against the run. But you got Roach back and D.J. Jones, he said. On defense your offensive line is locked in. You've got the young receivers going with Courtland back. I think you need to upgrade your tight end room, but you and your backfield, even with Dobbins and I think they bring Dobbins back on a 2 or 3 year deal.

00;40;17;18 - 00;40;33;18

Brandon Krisztal

Point being that 84% back last year, the math right there says you got about 80 ish percent back next year. But to the point both of y'all made, it doesn't mean and Sean and George said it a year ago and they said it again today. You don't get to start back in the playoffs. You don't get the starters, the one seed next year you start on zero.

00;40;33;26 - 00;40;53;21

Brandon Krisztal

And if you start out three and four, you may not be able to dig out of that hole in this division. Knowing that, I know we talk about first play schedule, last play schedule, whatever. Because of the way the league works, you now have three games against the first place teams from the other division. So you're going to see and I got to do this off the top of my head here real quick.

00;40;53;21 - 00;41;11;23

Brandon Krisztal

You're going to see the Eagles okay. Again I guess I was the Eagles this year who they play last year. You're gonna see the first place team from the NFC. And then you're going to see the Texans. And you're going to see the Chicago. Yeah. So maybe you're seeing Chicago. And then you're going to see who's the other first place team that is in the AFC East.

00;41;11;23 - 00;41;26;01

Brandon Krisztal

What's on ABC central. You're going to see the Steelers. So they're playing a first place team was the Raiders are playing the last place teams and all those. And those are three games which we know how close it can be to winning the division or being the top seed. Those three games matter in that regard.

00;41;26;01 - 00;41;52;29

I think the timing was was right. Let's just let's just keep it real on this. Patrick Mahomes and the Kansas City Chiefs were just down. They couldn't figure it out all year long. Let's not bank on that for the 2026 season. Lamar Jackson and the Baltimore Ravens similarly just couldn't quite get it right right. Let's not bank on that.

00;41;53;01 - 00;42;07;28

Josh Allen who the Broncos did beat here in the playoffs. Probably his worst overall team changes will be made. There will be improvements there. So we saw a conference the AFC where.

00;42;07;29 - 00;42;09;22

Brandon Krisztal

You meant Joe Burrow too.

00;42;09;24 - 00;42;34;07

That's right Joe you know Cincinnati. You got to figure it with his health. That's going to be a different I mean the absolute best quarterbacks in this league with the exception of a couple Stafford and over in the NFC. You gotta figure that that's not going to happen again, Chad. It kind of reminds me a little bit you mentioned on 1990, 89, 90 teams.

00;42;34;09 - 00;42;57;09

We got a lot of you guys from California, from the Los Angeles area and was able to build, as a foundation and national championship run, in part because the LA teams were down. You talk about taken advantage of what USC wasn't at that time and what UCLA wasn't at that time. I, I look at what's happening right now in this conference.

00;42;57;15 - 00;43;20;09

And I'm saying this year was just an anomaly. You don't win 13, you know, comeback games. You don't you don't have seasons where Patrick Mahomes and, Lamar Jackson are not even in the playoffs, that these things don't happen with Josh Allen. He squeaks in and his team's not very good. I mean, he has to be Superman every.

00;43;20;12 - 00;43;43;13

And of course Joe Burrow and Cincinnati, you know he's out for most of the season. And without him they're nothing. These things just don't happen. So when you turn inward and say, what is it that we have? Because those teams, those markets are saying just that will be fine because Patrick, in this offense, as you mentioned, Bieniemy back, we kind of got the band of brothers back together.

00;43;43;13 - 00;43;45;16

Brandon Krisztal

Herbert's going to get his tackles back at some point.

00;43;45;19 - 00;43;46;06

That we have to.

00;43;46;06 - 00;43;47;26

Brandon Krisztal

Think the Chargers are going to win a playoff.

00;43;47;26 - 00;43;52;28

Game. I'm not going to go that far because I've been hearing about them for for a.

00;43;53;02 - 00;43;54;04

Brandon Krisztal

Decade, I know.

00;43;54;07 - 00;44;12;02

But the point is, is all of those markets are saying, listen, have no fear, Lamar is here. Josh Allen, if he's on our team, he always got a chance to win a Super Bowl. What are we saying? What is this market saying that assured the fan base that we'll be right back where we were?

00;44;12;05 - 00;44;28;23

Chad Brown

I don't think you know sure I don't I think I don't think you can make that assurance. I think this is, again, a super Bowl worthy roster. But that's not enough. You need some luck. You need some help. You need some great coaching along the way. Your improvement or your ability to run it back is not in a vacuum.

00;44;28;23 - 00;44;49;20

Chad Brown

Everyone else around you is now trying to improve. And so if Vance Joseph doesn't leave and get some head coaching job someplace, every offensive coordinator that is going to be playing the Broncos is going to study that defense and begin to find ways to be successful against it. What are we going to do with Nick Benito? What are we going to do with Jonathan Cooper?

00;44;49;26 - 00;45;08;22

Chad Brown

What makes Alex Singleton so productive? How do we deal with Paxton? Because you can definitely get some yards and more of these routes that he's weakest against. So when you're up top, you get chipped away from a coaching standpoint. And then everybody, when they do their film study, their film projects in the off season, you know, watch film on the Raiders.

00;45;08;24 - 00;45;13;15

Chad Brown

You watch teams that are on the.

00;45;13;18 - 00;45;17;21

Oh we lose, we lose. Chad I think we got.

00;45;17;24 - 00;45;48;06

Brandon Krisztal

Yeah. And what was intense about Vance Joseph, it's, it's happened while we've been talking. Anthony Campanile, the Jaguars defensive coordinator, has pulled out of the Arizona Cardinals coaching search. There's people in handicap coaches bed online.ag somebody else who's I think based in Vegas. And I saw earlier today that Mike LaFleur, who had dinner with them last night that was reported in Arizona, was odds on favorite like -250.

00;45;48;08 - 00;46;07;04

Brandon Krisztal

Then Anthony Campanella second, and Vance Joseph, who hasn't even had a formal interview with Arizona but spent four years there and had multiple interviews the last time around when they ended up hiring. Jonathan Gannon knows Michael Bidwill, worked for him for four years, has a close relationship, and interviewed with Monte Austin Ford, who was the new GM three years ago.

00;46;07;05 - 00;46;25;04

Brandon Krisztal

So Vance doesn't need to get past he's gotten past that part. If Mike LaFleur doesn't wow him or they're not ready to give him the job, it's just interesting. Campanile pulled out. Do they look at Mike LaFleur, who doesn't call plays he called plays for the Jets. That didn't go great when he was there with Saleh. He goes not.

00;46;25;04 - 00;46;27;06

Ever. Something you want to put on your resume by the way?

00;46;27;09 - 00;46;44;06

Brandon Krisztal

Oh, I get it. I get called plays. But I know, Johnny Moe, who got fired in Detroit, is now back in Denver called plays for the Jets a few years ago, we saw Nathaniel Hackett call plays for the Jets. It doesn't normally go well. But that's the only time Mike Lafleur's called plays. Otherwise, he's been on staffs.

00;46;44;09 - 00;47;07;02

Brandon Krisztal

His brother obviously was there with the Rams. And Mike I think was with the 40 Niners. So he's around Kyle. But Mike obviously didn't call plays with Kyle. And then Matt goes you know to green Bay. Mike goes with Saleh. Point being Mike hasn't called plays except the one year with the Jets he got fired. If the Cardinals like Mike LaFleur but not enough to run their whole building.

00;47;07;04 - 00;47;18;10

Brandon Krisztal

I'm not saying Sean wouldn't let him go, but I think Sean McVay would let him go call plays even if it's in their division. And maybe Vance Joseph's odds got better. I mean, you guys might know more than me. There's been no reporting on. Well, if.

00;47;18;10 - 00;47;19;14

We do, we're not going to say.

00;47;19;15 - 00;47;37;04

Brandon Krisztal

Yes sir. Certainly I get that. But point being, I just thought it was interesting why we were talking. And then Kevin Neil came back. And so whether you're studying Vance Joseph or not, you ask the question, what do the Broncos have to build on? We know defense travels and every one of those bad dudes is going to be back, save for Jay FM and maybe Jay Mack.

00;47;37;10 - 00;47;46;25

Brandon Krisztal

But if Jay Mack isn't back, then your first round picks are going to slide in and Johnny Barron and be your nickel so everyone else is back for the most part. Maybe you're not.

00;47;46;25 - 00;47;59;26

No, no, I was just I was you know, defense travels in and, you know, it's it's been long said the defense. Defense wins championships. There might be some defender. Some defender came up with that.

00;47;59;26 - 00;48;09;06

Brandon Krisztal

I'm certain that's like the person who said it's good luck when it rains on your wedding day. It's like some somebody years ago when somebody. Good luck when it rains like, really. Well, it's pouring right now. So let's just hope for the best.

00;48;09;11 - 00;48;10;17

He left his ass within two.

00;48;10;18 - 00;48;17;25

Brandon Krisztal

Yeah. Mean look at the divorce rate in America. So I'm not sure that that that one holds true. And also there's a boatload of offensive coaches who have won Super Bowls.

00;48;17;26 - 00;48;24;22

You know what's amazing to me? I've never seen anything like this coaching cycle. First of all, you have ten jobs that come open, right.

00;48;24;25 - 00;48;27;15

Brandon Krisztal

Which are twice ever 78 and one other.

00;48;27;15 - 00;48;41;27

Time, right, like 96 or something. That in and of itself was an anomaly. But I've never seen a cycle where so many coaches are turning down or pulling out publicly.

00;48;41;28 - 00;48;42;24

Brandon Krisztal

Yeah.

00;48;42;26 - 00;49;05;16

Of coaching opportunities. And it just goes to show, I think there is a logic to it. Right? If I have a damn good coordinating job, I'm a coordinator and I got a good job. It also speaks the amount of money these guys make. Great. Like these coordinators are, are making some pretty good coin these days. Why would I chase the Cleveland Browns, which is a cluster and always have been.

00;49;05;20 - 00;49;30;00

And I know myself like there's likely to be 2 to 3 years. And the damage that I would endure as, in terms of my reputation, potentially I'll just stay where I'm at. You know, I, you know, we're built to be a playoff team, whatever the circumstance or the situation is in wait for cycles. The other cycles come around which there are no guarantees.

00;49;30;08 - 00;49;38;17

I've had. I've just never seen anything like it where coaches are, kind of picking their shots and saying, no, I'm not going to take that job. I'll wait it out.

00;49;38;19 - 00;49;57;02

Chad Brown

When you think about the pillars of success in the NFL, ownership is a huge piece of that ownership GM, head coach, quarterback. If you can check off three of the four boxes, chances are you're going to be a pretty successful football team. And so the reason why I think folks are turning some of these jobs down is you could see your point.

00;49;57;04 - 00;50;21;13

Chad Brown

Who wants to go to the mess in Cleveland and have an awful ownership group and an uncertain quarterback position or uncertain quarterback room begin to determine your fate? There's plenty of time. Vance Joseph speaking specifically about him. He's our contemporary. He's not an old man. He's got another head coaching opportunity in front of him. But I'm sure you wanted to make it the right one.

00;50;21;15 - 00;50;38;08

Chad Brown

On the last time in Denver, there were folks up in the front office who didn't allow him to do what he needed to do from a hiring coach standpoint, from playing the players he wanted to play standpoint. Now, after going through that, would you go to another situation where the front office is uncertain or the ownership is meddling?

00;50;38;14 - 00;50;54;29

Chad Brown

Now, of course you want he can recognize where that was to his detriment and to his downfall as the head coach of the Denver Broncos. And it'd be far wiser to wait for a better opportunity where you get to actually be the guy who steers the boat, rather than the guy who's going to take the blame in the fall.

00;50;55;01 - 00;51;05;23

Chad Brown

So yeah, I, I would operate as a lot of these guys are this year. Yeah, I want an opportunity, but I don't want that one over there because that one sucks. Because that owner is terrible.

00;51;05;25 - 00;51;25;23

Brandon Krisztal

Yeah. You asked about who is Sean Payton. Well, he's a guy that repeats the same sayings, but one that he's talked about over the years. And he said it a few times this year is that only about 10 or 12 franchises can win a Super Bowl because of ownership, and because the other 20 ish don't have it right.

00;51;25;26 - 00;51;44;26

Brandon Krisztal

They're never going to give their franchise a chance to win a championship. They might have some winning years, but they can't stay out of their own way or their owners way or mean, or their coaches way, their personnel people, their teams way. And so sometimes you're getting hired just to get fired, not with the intent, but look at I mean, Cleveland had Kevin Stefanski for six years.

00;51;45;03 - 00;52;10;01

Brandon Krisztal

He won two coach of the year honors. He finally has a Pro Bowl quarterback and he gets fired. And so I but whether that's Cleveland the Raiders biggest thing with the Raiders right now they've got appealing pieces to it with an ownership that went from having no money to $7 billion because of the value of the franchise and the money that came in with Brady and his group.

00;52;10;03 - 00;52;31;16

Brandon Krisztal

But that's kind of the biggest thing. And so, you know, a couple good players. The number one pick is Tom Brady really running the team from Miami when he's at a different game every weekend is John Smith tech empowered to run the team? Will the head coach and John be able to work together, or they have to check more times than not with Tom Brady and John even said, it is under your pressure that like it's not I'm not talking to me about practice squad moves and stuff.

00;52;31;17 - 00;52;47;22

Brandon Krisztal

Not talking to Tom about that necessarily. But the point is that still kind of a mess there. Even if it's getting better. We think we know what Arizona has been. We know what some of these teams have been. And so because of that, that's where I think Sean is probably right. And you look at who wins Super Bowls, it's kind of the same teams.

00;52;47;22 - 00;53;14;23

Brandon Krisztal

That's what made the Baltimore opening for as good as the stable is a Giants and Steelers ownership have been, they don't necessarily have an influx of cash where they're like right. The the Panthers owner, he gets in the way. He has all he has $20 billion but he gets in the way. That's what makes this ownership group maybe the most impressive because they have the most money and they're letting their football people be football people and and look at the success they've had in very short time.

00;53;14;24 - 00;53;25;00

You know, the success of your wardrobe today is notable. I gotta give a shout out to my girl, Miss Peggy, right there on the beach. There we go, right there. And I felt bad last week wearing my out there.

00;53;25;05 - 00;53;35;05

Brandon Krisztal

Wear my Jayhawks stuff. I didn't feel bad wearing it. But you were uncomfortable knowing the Jayhawks were in town. And we're going to take care of business and in Boulder at Allen Fieldhouse, Rocky Mountain. And they did.

00;53;35;10 - 00;53;35;25

And I.

00;53;35;25 - 00;53;42;01

Brandon Krisztal

Know. And then they were down the field out west in Manhattan, Kansas in one on Sunday. Sorry, DC former K-State player.

00;53;42;02 - 00;53;43;11

So I figured I figured.

00;53;43;11 - 00;53;44;05

Brandon Krisztal

You know who doesn't love me?

00;53;44;05 - 00;53;46;21

Thank you. You figured you find a way to wedge in who doesn't love respect?

00;53;46;25 - 00;53;51;09

Brandon Krisztal

I mean, look, she was there cheering for a Pro Bowl quarterback the last two years whose numbers were.

00;53;51;11 - 00;54;15;00

Two in a second there, there's a relationship between that Cleveland Browns Pro Bowl quarterback Chad and Miss Peggy. Of course, being the number one super fan for your Colorado Buffaloes before we get to Pro Bowl and all that stuff, I got to get about give a shout out to my folks over at Golf Dan that's golf-den.com a concourse Denver airport mezzanine level.

00;54;15;03 - 00;54;34;23

I'm telling you right now I do it every time I travel. Now Chad, you all to be traveling Super Bowl bound at some point. Get to the airport early, right if you can. When you come back in town, go over to golf, then work on your game. This this is the time to work on it. You can't be good going to your first practice in training camp.

00;54;34;25 - 00;54;53;25

You have to work in the offseason. So I'm encourage you to get over to golf. Golf Dan golf test dan.com. You can check it up, make check it out, make a reservation and get you some swings. And bro. Because what happens is you start in June and by the end of July you've concluded accurately that I'm no good.

00;54;53;25 - 00;54;57;07

You're no good because you didn't start in February.

00;54;57;13 - 00;55;15;20

Brandon Krisztal

When I bet golfing on on Sunday, especially Sunday afternoon evening, as people were trying to get out of town, couldn't there they're watching the the AFC title game, NFC title game. It's more than just a place to go. You can have to go have a pop, watch the games. I'm sure they had a really busy day on Sunday and it was a lot of fun and more people discovering it.

00;55;15;20 - 00;55;28;07

Brandon Krisztal

But you're right, that's the first time I'm getting on a plane since the Broncos Raiders game because I skipped Christmas night in Indy in KC, so I'm looking forward to stopping by golf then on my way to San Francisco.

00;55;28;10 - 00;55;35;07

Encourage you to do a chat. I'm encouraging you to do it as well, and I want the story to be a little different in 2026, my friend. Hey, it golf.

00;55;35;07 - 00;55;36;28

Chad Brown

We think you did it with.

00;55;37;00 - 00;55;38;23

Sorry. Say that again Chad.

00;55;38;26 - 00;55;45;18

Chad Brown

I can see I'm going to fully take advantage of the golf tournament, opportunities in front of me this year. So golf then is in my plans. No doubt.

00;55;45;19 - 00;55;47;20

Brandon Krisztal

They've got to have lefthanded clubs for Chad.

00;55;47;23 - 00;55;48;13

Oh, of course.

00;55;48;19 - 00;55;52;24

Chad Brown

They got K club for C.J..

00;55;52;27 - 00;55;55;28

You guys practice that. You guys work for that? You know.

00;55;55;28 - 00;55;57;29

Brandon Krisztal

What? That has been good at what we do.

00;55;57;29 - 00;56;09;10

Yeah, whatever. Hey, man. Speaking of Pro Bowl quarterbacks, the good news came from out of the NFL yesterday. I mean, I mean, look, for the league finally got one, right.

00;56;09;10 - 00;56;10;08

Brandon Krisztal

Finally.

00;56;10;10 - 00;56;20;27

Finally got one right. My man. Short door has been selected to play in the 2026 Pro Bowl the next week if I'm not Tuesday.

00;56;20;27 - 00;56;36;11

Brandon Krisztal

So that is one thing about the Pro Bowl this year. I mean, it's turned into flag football. We understand that and I don't even know how much beyond that. Maybe I think they're paring down the dodgeball and all the other stuff. I think it's kind of mostly the flag football game. I need to find out more details because we now have six Broncos that will be a part of it.

00;56;36;11 - 00;56;54;07

Brandon Krisztal

Garrett bowls going to his first Pro Bowl in Year nine. Just like his first all pro selection. Bitcoin miners is in the Pro Bowl and obviously two again Nick Benito, Zach Allen and Courtland Sutton. And so they will all be there with Schneider Sanders. It's going to be in the convention center where they have the all the fan stuff.

00;56;54;07 - 00;56;55;07

This is the best.

00;56;55;10 - 00;57;03;26

Brandon Krisztal

It's going to be on Twitter. I know this. No one ever pays attention to the Pro Bowl beyond, oh, it's on TV on the Sunday before the Super Bowl. Oh, there's Peyton and Eli coaching up flag football. Or maybe maybe you.

00;57;03;26 - 00;57;07;28

Saw it immediately. Sure. Like no one's West Point is a Pro Bowl. A lot of.

00;57;07;28 - 00;57;09;15

Brandon Krisztal

Us will be there to covered on Tuesday.

00;57;09;15 - 00;57;10;25

Are you covering the poll?

00;57;10;27 - 00;57;13;08

Brandon Krisztal

Well I got six Broncos to go cover now so.

00;57;13;08 - 00;57;15;17

But they go we're.

00;57;15;17 - 00;57;18;03

Brandon Krisztal

Going to talk to them about the fourth and one play again. And while.

00;57;18;05 - 00;57;18;12

That's.

00;57;18;12 - 00;57;30;03

Brandon Krisztal

Okay I'm going to talk to him about hey how great of a passer that from shadow or to because defensive offensive guys flip and flip flop you know so maybe she do her jumps to defense and asks his dad and brother for some tips.

00;57;30;03 - 00;57;41;12

Well here's what's cool about it. You mentioned Garrett bowls his first Pro Bowl. He gets to share that stage with another guy who's going to be in his first Pro Bowl. That happens to be his rookie year and should do a sandwich. He has a.

00;57;41;12 - 00;57;43;05

Brandon Krisztal

Chance to be a Pro Bowler every year he plays now.

00;57;43;05 - 00;57;44;16

That's if he very few.

00;57;44;16 - 00;57;46;18

Brandon Krisztal

People can say that. Aaron Donald, I think.

00;57;46;20 - 00;57;49;00

Chad, you played in some Pro Bowls.

00;57;49;02 - 00;58;14;13

Chad Brown

I did play some Pro Bowls and the play of the Pro, well, it was different back in the day. I played in the Pro Bowl when it was actually a football game, when, the difference between the appearance, the dollars for winning or losing was significant enough that you came out and actually played hard. We were so lowly paid at that time.

00;58;14;13 - 00;58;33;06

Chad Brown

The comparison today to today's players that the difference mattered. And what was I going to be able to pay for this trip? You fly your family and your in-laws and your siblings out to Hawaii, and you feed them three meals a day? Hell yeah, you want to win that game because all that money needs to go to pay for this trip that I'd sponsored for all my family.

00;58;33;06 - 00;58;40;28

Chad Brown

It's supposed to be congratulations to me and ends up being, hey, congratulations to you all for being related to me. Do you remember.

00;58;41;00 - 00;58;43;21

Do you remember how much what was the difference in the world?

00;58;43;24 - 00;58;45;24

Brandon Krisztal

It's double right. Whatever it used to be. Double.

00;58;45;27 - 00;59;07;15

Chad Brown

I think my first year it was 20,000 and then 40,000. Then, I think my time my last year maybe was 30 and 60, because I made it a couple of times. Three times. But yeah, I mean, if you lost that 30 grand did not cover everyone's playing flights, the air lobby, the hotel where the Pro Bowl used to be, stationed.

00;59;07;17 - 00;59;21;27

Chad Brown

It was like 800 bucks a night. And every time he sat down for me, it was 100 bucks a person to feed people. So, yeah, I wanted to win that game. I actually gave a halftime speech. I'm not a halftime speech guy. We got to get it together. You know, we had a win.

00;59;22;00 - 00;59;38;25

Brandon Krisztal

Well, and, I want to ask you, because Peyton Manning, Peyton Manning famously, we know he's a prankster in general, but he had no problem asking a young player, what room are you staying in? Because I'm on a swing by and grab you and we're going to go grab some drinks later or whatever, just to know then, okay.

00;59;38;28 - 01;00;04;17

Brandon Krisztal

Senor Sanders is in room 1115 because y'all were all in the same hotel. Oh, we're going to put this on room 1115. Sanders. And all of a sudden, you know, that rookie year, that young guy has not a $20,000 bill or a 30, but a $50,000 bill. Did you ever have that with anyone that you know that it happened to, or saw it happening or warned somebody, can you take us through any of those occurrences?

01;00;04;24 - 01;00;22;18

Chad Brown

Yes. So, this involves two, Bronco greats who also one of them is a buff. Great as well. So Alfred Williams and I make the Pro Bowl 96. You know I'm in stretch line behind Alfred. He's like, hey, man, what are you doing after practice? Well, like I was going to kick it by the pool with the family.

01;00;22;25 - 01;00;44;16

Chad Brown

You like jet skis, Chad? Yeah, I like jet skis, man. Let's go down to Waikiki, get some jet skis. It'll be a great afternoon. Hi, man. I am in Miami at the pool bar right after practice, so I get down to the pool bar right after practice. Actually, after practice, I went until Kristen Brown, my wife in the hotel room, said, what are you doing?

01;00;44;17 - 01;01;06;12

Chad Brown

Oh, me an outfit. We're going go down to Waikiki. We're gonna get some jet skis. It's going to be great, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. I get down to the pool bar. Alfred has set me up to pay for the drinks for all the Pro Bowl veterans. So it's Neil Smith, it's Derrick Thomas, it's Michael Dean Perry. So Alfred obviously got caught the day before.

01;01;06;18 - 01;01;23;27

Chad Brown

So his job was to catch me the next day. So he catches me. So after about 30 minutes I go up to the bartender I'm like here man, I'm going to fill this this tab out. I'm going to cap it at a thousand bucks. That's it. These guys can drink as much as it costs up to a thousand bucks.

01;01;23;27 - 01;01;34;13

Chad Brown

I'm done. I'm signed the bill now. But you know what happened? The next day of practice, I go up to Terrell Davis. Man, you like jet skis?

01;01;34;16 - 01;01;36;04

Oh, sweet.

01;01;36;07 - 01;01;56;27

Chad Brown

Let's go, let's go. This some jet ski, daddy? Waikiki. Meet me at the pool bar right after practice. So I had a lobster roll. Davis to the Neil Smith and Derrick Thomas and all those guys the next day. And two, I'm not sure what his bar tab was and how he cut it off. But that's a Pro Bowl tradition.

01;01;56;29 - 01;02;02;14

Chad Brown

And yes, I got involved due to Alfred, and I had to involve Tedy, because, you know, someone else has got to pay.

01;02;02;16 - 01;02;20;16

Well, you know, that tradition isn't restricted to Pro Bowl. Sure, sure. Fact. We were just not long ago on a golf trip. And the last thing you want to do, you know, you check in to the hotel, all the fellows out of here got to get your golf clubs, and, you know, you're checking in and oftentimes you're early.

01;02;20;16 - 01;02;41;00

So you sitting around the lobby, the last thing you do is share your room number between. And we'll ask like, you know what what room you in. And as soon as someone nails it, you know, just shout out their room number. It's it's inevitable. When we check out there, they are arguing with the front desk clerk. Like, I mean, where did these judges come from?

01;02;41;05 - 01;02;44;08

And we're just sitting there like, hey, man, like, pay your bill, bro.

01;02;44;08 - 01;03;02;25

Brandon Krisztal

We've all been there. We've all been to hotel bars, and this is kind of a good test of one. What kind of listener are you into? Are you a good person or not? Because we hear like Chad Brown, Charles Johnson, you guys do not have the hardest last names to spell. So if I'm there and you pull up next to me and I'm minding my own business and I hear, oh yeah.

01;03;02;25 - 01;03;09;26

Brandon Krisztal

Johnson roommate 54. They okay, we run it. Here you go, Mr. Johnson. I know, I know, I can smell Johnson. You may not be able to smell Bristol.

01;03;10;03 - 01;03;11;11

Why would I have to spell it correctly?

01;03;11;11 - 01;03;25;27

Brandon Krisztal

They might just know if I said Crystal know. Like. Oh, and you spelled it wrong, I think. Well, you spell my name with the c dummies. If I hear the divider, you say Johnson. I'm saying I don't even know you. I hear you say, Johnson. I hear you say Brown and give the room number. Oh, you. The next time I go back.

01;03;25;27 - 01;03;27;16

Oh, you're talking about criminal.

01;03;27;18 - 01;03;45;18

Brandon Krisztal

Criminal activity. This is how you have to decide. Are you a criminal or not? I am not a criminal. I'm just simply saying, when your last name is Johnson or Brown, you got to be careful who's in earshot. When you tell the person behind. Especially if you're drinking and having a good time in a pool bar in Hawaii, in Mexico, somewhere where you.

01;03;45;25 - 01;03;47;20

Just took it to a whole different level.

01;03;47;21 - 01;03;48;16

Brandon Krisztal

I'm just saying, you got to.

01;03;48;16 - 01;03;49;26

Water in time for that.

01;03;49;28 - 01;03;54;18

Brandon Krisztal

Of course you could have. They could prove that you were the one that put those videos everywhere.

01;03;54;19 - 01;03;55;08

Okay.

01;03;55;11 - 01;04;04;02

Brandon Krisztal

Yeah. Because the Mexican courts are going to call you up and say you need to come back here to Cancun, because Mr. Johnson said there's $180. You know.

01;04;04;07 - 01;04;06;11

Waikiki is in the United.

01;04;06;11 - 01;04;12;28

Brandon Krisztal

States. He's different. But either way, I'm not I'm not sure. Point being, consider me a good person morally or a bad person.

01;04;13;05 - 01;04;29;12

Chad Brown

I think Brandon's PSA is is smart. Yes, because people often charge things to the room. Hey, I'll put it in my room tab. And they the first question they asked, what room are you in? And you say it out loud and then yes, all it takes is for someone to go, hey, man, nice to meet you. What's what's your name again?

01;04;29;20 - 01;04;35;13

Chad Brown

Oh, it's all nothing. Now I got it. Got your room number. Got your last name. Drinks on C.J..

01;04;35;19 - 01;04;39;16

Well, actually, what I told him was my name was Alfred Williams.

01;04;39;18 - 01;04;40;13

Brandon Krisztal

Easy to spell.

01;04;40;13 - 01;05;00;23

Hey, hey. Right before we get out of here, miss speaking, saying things out loud. See, you made some news this week. Coach Prime comes out, and talks about publicly. And I would imagine this isn't the only program that's doing it, but which is was oftentimes the case with Coach Prime. He's the one who will say it out loud.

01;05;00;26 - 01;05;22;01

Fines for players who break rules I would I just wanted to before we get out of here, get your stance on it. I think if you if you're late to a meeting, it's like $1,000. Fine. If you're, you know, in this world of nil where everyone's making money, this level of accountability being paid off in money and the narrow in dollars and cents.

01;05;22;03 - 01;05;28;09

Your thoughts on that move that Coach Prime is making it, I'm sure, as I mentioned, other programs are doing.

01;05;28;09 - 01;05;41;28

Brandon Krisztal

My only question, and I didn't. I saw the headline and I and I saw the tweets. Is there a threshold because not everyone is there making money. And so if you are a scholarship player, but you're maybe you get a little bit from a collector, maybe I, I guess I don't know as well.

01;05;41;28 - 01;05;42;24

You have the revenue share.

01;05;42;25 - 01;05;55;23

Brandon Krisztal

To the guys in the 70s and 80s everybody's making something. So as long I'm just saying walk ons probably are exempt from this. I would think in general, but walk ons are going to you don't have to worry about them too much, I wouldn't think. I guess what.

01;05;55;23 - 01;05;59;15

Happens if you miss a meeting? You got a bigger problem? Dinner, for sure.

01;05;59;15 - 01;06;04;03

Brandon Krisztal

But, all 85 guys on or whatever the numbers these days, they're all.

01;06;04;08 - 01;06;15;05

Well, I mean, you get the revenue share, so everyone's making something. But I think the larger point is, is, you know, the docking of of pay, to, to punish.

01;06;15;05 - 01;06;29;24

Brandon Krisztal

Presumably the players have to sign the agreement, right? That, I guess, is he allowed to just openly find them? Because in the NFL you are a an employee of that franchise or in the NBA. So like I remember Derrick Coleman for your Pistons famously when they change the.

01;06;29;25 - 01;06;31;12

Grew up with DC when they.

01;06;31;15 - 01;06;49;06

Brandon Krisztal

When they when they change the I guess pistons and that's but when they change the you the dress code really just because of Allen Iverson and his swag, like you got to wear suits there. Coleman went up to Larry Brown and wrote a check for whatever. The number was 80 grand and said, I'm not wearing a suit.

01;06;49;07 - 01;06;55;29

Brandon Krisztal

Any game you go and I don't think it's even Larry Brown's to cash. I think it was just okay. But either way, he was I mean.

01;06;55;29 - 01;07;10;25

It which, which, which preemptive check do you guys think was most, was most valuable? The one that DC wrote to the commissioner of the NBA or the one that, Oh my goodness, who's a superstar for the Minnesota Timberwolves?

01;07;10;26 - 01;07;12;14

Brandon Krisztal

Oh, Anthony Edwards. That's a definitely.

01;07;12;14 - 01;07;13;16

It was wrote his.

01;07;13;16 - 01;07;14;21

Brandon Krisztal

$80 million.

01;07;14;22 - 01;07;16;22

Baby mamas which was the I think.

01;07;16;25 - 01;07;23;04

Brandon Krisztal

The way you can track it too is Kevin Durant. Kevin Ran has no problem going at and all day and all night on Twitter.

01;07;23;06 - 01;07;38;14

Anthony Antonio was race to tech to to the to the his his baby's mom. Yeah basically to the court saying look I'm not doing this child's play thing. They just tell me how much I need. I'm gonna write this chick. We probably should laugh at it, but it's funny.

01;07;38;18 - 01;07;40;00

Brandon Krisztal

His choice. I mean.

01;07;40;06 - 01;07;43;11

He writes a check big tech and says, I'm, you know, I'm done.

01;07;43;14 - 01;07;46;23

Chad Brown

All right. Okay, so back to the child.

01;07;46;25 - 01;07;48;03

So we'll talk about that.

01;07;48;06 - 01;07;50;11

Chad Brown

In the, in the, in the c U bus.

01;07;50;13 - 01;07;52;04

We want to talk about this your show.

01;07;52;06 - 01;07;53;17

Brandon Krisztal

But he wants to talk about Prime first.

01;07;53;18 - 01;07;56;12

How about the baby mama? Yeah. Go ahead. Well.

01;07;56;14 - 01;08;16;00

Chad Brown

I'm gonna I'm happy to dive into that, but I think BK brings up a great point. If you're going to find these kids because they're still kids, then they need to be employees and they need to be given the same protections that other employees have. And so the the NCAA and college football, obviously, things are in a bit of a wild, wild West period.

01;08;16;02 - 01;08;30;11

Chad Brown

But if more programs adopt what Coach Prime is trying to do here, then this just completely blurs and takes away or doesn't blur. It takes away the line between, oh, they're not employees because they will be employees if you start, fine.

01;08;30;14 - 01;08;31;17

So I think.

01;08;31;20 - 01;08;53;09

Chad Brown

Then this would mandate that the other part of this equation be addressed. If you can find them and punish them as employees, then they also need the same protections that other employees have. If you can be actually fired for cause as these kids lose their scholarship, you can be fined for, you know, conduct detrimental to the team or being late or whatever.

01;08;53;12 - 01;09;04;23

Chad Brown

Then they also need to be given employee protection. So we're getting into a weird area now with college sports. And this coach, Brian, by being public with this, is pushing this conversation to the forefront.

01;09;04;25 - 01;09;21;12

Brandon Krisztal

Well, and to answer your question, I don't have a problem with it. Fundamentally, as long as everyone knows that it's coming and he's obviously not hiding it. So I'm guessing that, like anyone else, like any coach, is like, hey, if you don't like what I'm doing, you can leave. He's got this fine system and anybody that's transferred in or is already on on the roster.

01;09;21;15 - 01;09;36;17

Brandon Krisztal

If they don't agree to this, then they don't have to stay on the team and they can just part ways. But I imagine that he at least has to get all of them to sign off on, which I don't think is hard. So I don't hate it, I love them, I'm with Chad about just as long as it's above board, which in this case it appears to be.

01;09;36;18 - 01;09;57;11

Well, I love I love the conversation. I didn't know my boys were such labor rights guys. And, you know, I'm a Detroit. It's I'm all about that as well. But I do think to your point, this is the next shoe to drop in the sort of NCAA college sports, particularly football saga, will be collective bargaining.

01;09;57;13 - 01;10;20;03

There will have to be some, because you're right, it's not all spelled out. Unlike in the National Football League with, it's a players union. And, the negotiations with, with the league with ownership, that's the next shoe to drop. And again, I'm it. The NCAA is being they're they're being dragged to this reality that this is just where we are.

01;10;20;06 - 01;10;41;27

We should have been having this conversation should have been had 15 years ago. And it's so messy right now and so cumbersome that common sense things you're paying players, you have rules. One of the sticks you have to, you know, to enforce your rules is that DACA pay until your point without an agreement they're still that's still muddy a little bit.

01;10;41;27 - 01;11;04;08

So everything that happens in college football it seems is a day late a dollar short. But be sure to be sure they will catch up. And I'm really looking forward to the day where athletes can organize and have representation on their behalf to negotiate these things out with the NCAA or with whatever. You know, I say NCAA, but with who?

01;11;04;12 - 01;11;05;07

Whoever the.

01;11;05;08 - 01;11;05;24

Brandon Krisztal

Sanctioning.

01;11;05;24 - 01;11;10;15

By the sanctioning body is that overlooks, college football in particular, in this case.

01;11;10;17 - 01;11;31;06

Chad Brown

These kids, they signed a an agreement, a rev share agreement. And I don't think fines are a part of that agreement. So if juju crosses his arms and says, I ain't paying you, Coach Brian, I ain't giving you my money. Coach Brian really has no leverage in that situation. Contractually. So this is where we're at. He can he can do some play time things.

01;11;31;13 - 01;11;42;22

Chad Brown

And then again, that would say that would also be a potential libel or lawsuit in there as well. You're taking away my play time because I'm not paying a fine that wasn't outlined in this agreement that I signed between me and the school.

01;11;42;25 - 01;11;45;11

So but no, he was selling tickets.

01;11;45;14 - 01;11;48;10

Chad Brown

Himself in some pretty tricky waters here.

01;11;48;13 - 01;12;04;03

With them. He'll say, I'm taking away your play time because you missed the meeting. But you're right. I mean, it's still gray and tricky. And by the way, if it was juju, under any circumstance he can cross is obviously I'm not paying that. Right. Well, and it probably be okay.

01;12;04;03 - 01;12;08;28

Brandon Krisztal

Yeah. Because that's what he's gonna ask is what is the recourse to collect the fines? Like it's easy to go out there and say this.

01;12;08;29 - 01;12;09;25

Where does the money go?

01;12;09;28 - 01;12;19;24

Brandon Krisztal

Well then where's the money go? But how are you acquiring it? I don't know if it's the players that get money from the collective. That's likely paid out monthly by month, I.

01;12;19;24 - 01;12;23;20

Did imagine, you know, I would imagine the fine money would be the revenue share.

01;12;23;27 - 01;12;44;27

Brandon Krisztal

Or the revenue sharing money. Because if juju signing, I don't know the number. Let's just pretend he's making $1 million a year. And maybe more than that. Point being, he's signing a contract to play for the but for $1 million, unless the language about the fines which you have in your player agreement in the NFL because again an employee of Steelers Seahawks Patriots you have that in there.

01;12;45;02 - 01;13;03;24

Brandon Krisztal

They can fine you based on these. You know, outline points of conduct right. Just like we understand that odds are that his deal is contingent on playing for see you him or any player playing for the buffs. And so I know if you get the million bucks all at once or if they get it monthly, but that's a deal they've agreed to.

01;13;04;01 - 01;13;11;29

Brandon Krisztal

So odds are they're not taking oh two $2,500 out of Juju's check that he's supposed to be getting in November because he missed the meeting on October 20th.

01;13;11;29 - 01;13;14;06

Stock. His pay is 2500 less than what he would have.

01;13;14;09 - 01;13;31;13

Brandon Krisztal

But I guess what's coming out of the ref share, they can at least control that. Yeah. And so just like that's kind of how truly how NFL player finds work. You don't write a check Chad, for hitting a guy for $9,800 your paycheck. That was supposed to be 150 grand is now 141 grand or whatever.

01;13;31;15 - 01;13;54;22

Chad Brown

Okay, well, hell, I'm suing the hell out of see you. You take money out of my share check. And that's not part of the agreement in the contract that I signed. Yeah, you are getting sued. So you again, so I, I, I'm, I'm with the understanding of hey, these are paid guys. Therefore there needs to be a monetary punishment if they screw up, I just I'm saying you're putting the cart before the horse.

01;13;54;28 - 01;14;16;28

Chad Brown

There's no structure there that allows this to happen. You it's not in the agreements. And these refs these contracts now are part rev share and part. And I know you're going to get 500,000 from the rev share. You're going to get 250,000 from Adidas. You're going to get 200,000 from Lululemon. You're going to get 50,000 from Coca-Cola.

01;14;17;04 - 01;14;35;01

Chad Brown

And that's how these agreements are made. But nowhere in this agreement is a fine structure outline. What if a coach decides, I want to fine you ten grand? What if a coach decides I'm going to fine you because you missed a kick or pass or tackle? We're in this really stupid place right now where there's no parameters or guidelines around this.

01;14;35;03 - 01;14;39;04

Chad Brown

And so these things I'm throwing out may seem ridiculous, but no, no.

01;14;39;04 - 01;14;39;24

No, we're.

01;14;39;24 - 01;14;40;19

Chad Brown

At a ridiculous.

01;14;40;19 - 01;15;06;02

Place. No no no, no doubt about it. We are at a ridiculous place and everything is going to be challenged, moving forward, which again, I think we're on a crash course with, with, organizing and coming with coming up with some sort of all of this is forcing the hand of, of college athletics to allow some sort of representation of some sort of organization on behalf of the players to.

01;15;06;05 - 01;15;18;17

Do you have a total I know you've been fined because do you have a total of what you've been fined over the course of your NFL career, and what might you be able to do with that $350,000 today?

01;15;18;20 - 01;15;40;25

Chad Brown

I would say it's over 150 grand. Usually I would say I've only got one, two fines from teams. All the rest were from the league and they were really from hidden quarterbacks. You damn overprotected quarterbacks. You hit the quarterback in the head, you left your feet. You launched yourself into the quarterback. Hell yeah, I did.

01;15;40;27 - 01;15;46;27

Chad Brown

I want I don't want that dude to play another play that game. I had bad intentions. So overall, how.

01;15;46;27 - 01;15;47;06

Do you leave.

01;15;47;09 - 01;15;48;21

Brandon Krisztal

Your own bounty gate?

01;15;48;23 - 01;15;49;28

Yes.

01;15;50;00 - 01;16;11;05

Chad Brown

I got fined by the Seahawks. They put me in a hotel room with air conditioning. Didn't work. So I went to the front desk and bought my own room for the night. Coach Holmgren fired me five grand for leaving my room and breaking curfew. I was not very happy about that. And, I got fined for the at the Pittsburgh Steelers for getting in a fight in a preseason game.

01;16;11;07 - 01;16;21;25

Chad Brown

The NFL find me and Coach Cowher find me for fight in a preseason game. He told me it was the dumbest thing he seen me do in my four years of being there. It was pretty dumb.

01;16;21;27 - 01;16;22;20

Brandon Krisztal

Did you win the fight?

01;16;22;21 - 01;16;24;09

Who do you have a fight with?

01;16;24;12 - 01;16;35;24

Chad Brown

It was an offensive lineman. Some, like rookie from the Philadelphia Eagles, because he pushed me after the play and for whatever reason I decided, well, I've had enough. And I just went, Adam.

01;16;35;26 - 01;16;42;13

Brandon Krisztal

I'm sure the temperature had nothing to do with it. I'm sure it wasn't hot in Pennsylvania on the carpet. Whatever, whichever game that was.

01;16;42;13 - 01;16;59;01

Chad Brown

I think we were in Philly. It was hot, it was muggy, and I thought I shouldn't have even been in the game at that point. They have a rookie push me in the back. It just was this one. One more thing that I didn't need. And so, I think I came out that game between the two fines, about $12,000 lighter in the pocket.

01;16;59;06 - 01;17;05;19

Brandon Krisztal

Who was the guy that was the left tackle for the Eagles for 12 years? The the enormous head. That's probably John.

01;17;05;19 - 01;17;06;14

Chad Brown

Ryan.

01;17;06;16 - 01;17;11;28

Brandon Krisztal

No, not not not John Runyan not running after him. The big left tackle replace Runyan.

01;17;11;28 - 01;17;13;12

Chad Brown

Trey I'll trade.

01;17;13;12 - 01;17;14;03

Thomas.

01;17;14;05 - 01;17;16;01

Brandon Krisztal

Trey Thomas. So the trade,

01;17;16;03 - 01;17;17;00

Jumped.

01;17;17;02 - 01;17;18;27

Brandon Krisztal

Yeah. Was it Trey Thomas? I wouldn't fight him.

01;17;18;27 - 01;17;19;21

No, no.

01;17;19;26 - 01;17;24;23

Chad Brown

Every time it was it was not Trey Thomas. No. Something I don't even know was. And Trey Thomas.

01;17;24;25 - 01;17;25;19

Brandon Krisztal

Was a rookie at some point.

01;17;25;19 - 01;17;29;14

Hey guys. We talked AFC championship. We didn't say anything about the NFC championship.

01;17;29;14 - 01;17;30;25

Brandon Krisztal

Seahawks congrats is fine.

01;17;30;25 - 01;17;51;15

Congrats to the Seahawks I know right now they're the odds on favor. You guys don't have to do it. I'm going to go ahead and make my prediction right now because I think I think all things equal. And if nothing else changes between now and kickoff, give me the New England Patriots again. You guys don't have to make a prediction.

01;17;51;17 - 01;17;54;00

Brandon Krisztal

Oh yeah. This is the Chad Brown bully play for both these I know I know.

01;17;54;00 - 01;18;14;08

I'll be I'm curious to hear now Chad if you want to make a prediction that they you can't you can wait till next week. But I just want to get it. Just get it out there right now. I'm. There's something about this New England team that I think is destined to bump their head up against success. And this two weeks to prepare for this game.

01;18;14;10 - 01;18;15;28

Brandon Krisztal

Are they getting way different players on offense?

01;18;15;28 - 01;18;29;18

We will see the Pats now. Pats will be fine. Really. We will see if the quarterback in Seattle is who he's been more recently or who he's been who we thought he was.

01;18;29;21 - 01;18;32;19

Brandon Krisztal

Yeah, I'm looking to see what the line is. It was three and a half.

01;18;32;21 - 01;18;34;03

Okay,

01;18;34;05 - 01;18;38;05

Chad Brown

I'm not gonna give my prediction on this one just yet.

01;18;38;08 - 01;18;39;16

Brandon Krisztal

Four and a half right now.

01;18;39;18 - 01;19;01;23

Chad Brown

But I'm favoring the Seahawks. Because the only question mark about that football team is what Sam Darnold shows up. The best Sam Darnold of his career showed up last week. And so he was. Does the Sam late in Minnesota last year show up as the Sam Darnold in the two previous games against the Rams with two turnovers and then four turnovers in the first game this year, that guy show up.

01;19;01;25 - 01;19;22;00

Chad Brown

That's the biggest question mark about them. The Patriots. I got a hard time seeing that offense beginning to click on all cylinders. I know it's two weeks is lots of time to prepare. Josh McDaniels a great play caller. Drake Mesa MVP candidate Mike Vrabel is an excellent head coach. So there's a possibility there. But I think at the very least the Patriots will do as we saw them do against the Broncos.

01;19;22;07 - 01;19;40;17

Chad Brown

They'll play great situational football. They'll make the right coaching decisions to keep it a close game, even if their offense doesn't hit previous strides that they did earlier this year. So I'm leaning Seahawks right now. I can certainly make a case why the Patriots will win it. But I'll give my prediction on this show next week.

01;19;40;20 - 01;19;42;23

Okay I'm looking forward to that. What you want what do you want.

01;19;42;23 - 01;19;57;11

Brandon Krisztal

Yeah I know I'll give a score prediction next week as well. Right now I'm simply thinking it's the Seahawks by approximately a million and that maybe high because four and a half. But I may before I fly to San Francisco because you can't bet legally I may bet it up over ten.

01;19;57;12 - 01;19;59;00

Okay. Over ten.

01;19;59;03 - 01;20;13;00

Brandon Krisztal

Maybe I know that's the Super Bowl, and sometimes they're close, but I was the Super Bowl last year that wasn't close at all. Okay. And it was in the second half. I was trying to find Leo Messi in his suite to go say, what's up. Yeah, because that's how boring of a game it was because the Eagles kick the crap out of the Chiefs.

01;20;13;00 - 01;20;20;17

So I've given my prediction. Next week I'll give the score. Yeah. I'm again, unless there's some sort of catastrophic news.

01;20;20;19 - 01;20;36;02

Brandon Krisztal

Well, Drake made the on the shoulder thanks to Havana. What? The slide dude. Like, when he went down like that? When he's running the ball the second half, I guess it's in the fourth quarter and or third quarter, third quarter and half crunches. And I'm like, just slide right here.

01;20;36;02 - 01;20;36;23

So he's trying to win.

01;20;36;23 - 01;20;37;19

Brandon Krisztal

A football, trying to get.

01;20;37;19 - 01;20;56;17

Hurt. Be just fine okay. Anything else fellas before we get out of here man. You guys have Ramadan about fines and all kinds of shit. Anything else you want to ramble on about Chad out there? Snazzy with in the beard. And by the way, all those fines didn't really impact you. Too bad. Is, you're in your vacation digs somewhere in a warm region of the country.

01;20;56;20 - 01;21;01;00

You know, I love the background. You know, with the with the sun. That's not. By the way.

01;21;01;02 - 01;21;04;20

Brandon Krisztal

That ain't green screen. Those are real cacti, but. Right. That's right.

01;21;04;23 - 01;21;05;28

Chad Brown

Yes. Yeah. Yep.

01;21;05;28 - 01;21;20;05

You see the go down, you'll see the cook walk. But we saw the cook at the butler. The butler is, coming up next. The show's almost over. Said Butler's coming to get him and take him to his country club to get, you know, a sauna or something.

01;21;20;08 - 01;21;43;16

Chad Brown

Just to cap the side door. Sanders making the Pro Bowl. It's ridiculous. It's absolutely ridiculous. So, Dawn Sanders, what do you have possibly earned his way into the Ku Ring of Fame? I have his number retired down the road. I'm not saying that that should be off the table, but to be given that while he was still freaking on campus, that was ridiculous.

01;21;43;18 - 01;21;52;21

Chad Brown

And now to be a Pro Bowl when you're what quarterback rating was 19 or something, you had more interceptions and touchdowns. That's also ridiculous.

01;21;52;21 - 01;22;01;17

Wow man. You know Chad, you have never rubbed me to be that kind of guy. You know, like I look I don't I don't know I don't read.

01;22;01;19 - 01;22;06;27

Chad Brown

As you should be given things when you earn them. I don't rub you in that way. I do write myself that way.

01;22;06;28 - 01;22;20;29

Well, look, look, man. Look, man, if you got it, you know we ain't going to hate on it. We may not agree with how you got it, but you got it. And here's what I would say. Since when I don't. I can't even tell you who the hell is in the damn Pro Bowl.

01;22;21;01 - 01;22;22;01

Brandon Krisztal

Other than the six Broncos.

01;22;22;05 - 01;22;35;13

Other than with you, with who cares about who's in the Pro Bowl? Here's the deal though. Here's really what the league is saying. Any chance to get anyone to watch this damn game? We better put that guy in it.

01;22;35;15 - 01;22;39;06

Chad Brown

Yes, I blame I blame the Manny. No, don't blame anyone.

01;22;39;06 - 01;22;39;19

No one to.

01;22;39;19 - 01;22;40;21

Brandon Krisztal

Blame.

01;22;40;24 - 01;22;42;21

Except that that's just good business.

01;22;42;21 - 01;22;45;23

Brandon Krisztal

They put him in ahead of Lamar, right? I think they put him in. Hello.

01;22;45;29 - 01;22;51;21

My guess is Lamar is probably twist in this braids. And I know who the hell wants to go to that anyway.

01;22;51;24 - 01;22;56;14

Brandon Krisztal

That's what he's going to. He's going to turn it down. And Bo Nix was hurt.

01;22;56;17 - 01;22;59;20

I want you to relax and cheer on your fellow buff.

01;22;59;20 - 01;23;16;20

Brandon Krisztal

But where is it? But here's where it matters. And human brought this up. Me and big Alhaji Millan on the radio. When the Broncos made that Russell Wilson trade, and we have you milling on, he goes, let's pump the brakes on. Call him a nine time Pro Bowler. He was elected to the Pro Bowl four times. Five times he was an alternate replacement.

01;23;16;23 - 01;23;20;24

Brandon Krisztal

So his resume says nine time Pro Bowler. But and look he threw three on the touchdown.

01;23;20;24 - 01;23;22;18

Was he a nine time Pro Bowler?

01;23;22;21 - 01;23;43;02

Brandon Krisztal

Ultimately, just like Schnur, Sanders is a rookie year. But it it matters for legacy more than it matters in the moment. It's easy to poke fun at, but all of a sudden down the road when you're talking Hall of Fame candidacy or was that guy an all decade player? Well, he went to six Pro Bowls okay. Did he or did he go to two and was an, an alternate a league replacement for time?

01;23;43;03 - 01;23;50;07

Look was he a nine time Pro Bowl? Yeah. Okay. All right. It's a do it. A one time Pro Bowler so far his rookie year.

01;23;50;13 - 01;23;52;08

Brandon Krisztal

He never gets the smallest.

01;23;52;10 - 01;23;52;29

That's all I know.

01;23;53;00 - 01;23;55;02

Brandon Krisztal

Thomas Joe Thomas of course.

01;23;55;02 - 01;24;01;21

You know my nerves too. You know, you get on my nerves, man. All right, fellas, appreciate it man. Good stuff. We do it again next week.

01;24;01;23 - 01;24;02;12

Chad Brown

See you fellas.